probably going to be revealed in the next few days. Why?
"Elections Canada’s hunt for the identity of the political operative behind robo-calls designed to misdirect voters in Guelph has led the watchdog to records at PayPal Canada, a company that handles online payments and money transfers."
This is great news. It will put to rest who is the guilty party into those misleading phonecalls in the 2011 election. Whether the individual has ties to any of the political parties or is just a third-party agitator will also most likely come out.
The reasoning is Paypal. I mentioned here and on several other blogs that the person who purchased and used the "Pierre Poutine" phone would be easy to trace, regardless of it being a burner phone. The point of sale where the phone was purchased would be easily obtainable through Virgin Mobile. By using Paypal the perpetrator has left a trail that cannot be covered.
Here is why. Paypal requires you to link your banking account to your paypal account. To confirm your bank account is indeed genuine, they issue a small deposit that includes a code that you enter to confirm your info. So EC can verify without a doubt that persons name, bank account number, branch, location, etc.
Paypal also issues users a Paypal Debit/Mastercard. This card expires yearly. Paypal verifies your home address and banking information whenever mailing your new card. Paypal can also go back far enough with this Paypal account and see all transactions that occurred around the date of the 2011 election.
To put it simply, Pierre Poutine is about to get busted, it's not if but when. And when that occurs maybe we can all return to normal.
Where is PayPal registered and are they required to cooperate? Would you think EC will have to subpoena the records?
ReplyDeleteI think you are correct his identity will soon be blown, I certainly hope so.
And once PP is fingered, Elections Canada can move onto investigating who did the Robocall Voter Suppression in Windsor–Tecumseh, and in Nipissing-Timiskaming.
ReplyDeleteThe lone gunman story is starting to wear mighty thin
As for PayPal, Elections Canada has already issue court orders to them and they are complying
ReplyDeleteActually, one can use paypal as a guest. Not have the payment linked to a bank account. Use a credit card instead. But not a named card... a Visa cash card that can be purchased anywhere and is unamed.
ReplyDeleteThis way, it is possible to remain anonymous.
Hey Zorpheus, I did a little research on one of the "victims" in Nipissing, connections to Leadnow, NDP, Judy Rebick, Charlie Angus. All last year before any mention of robocalls. Been involved in lots of anti-Harper stuff.
ReplyDeleteYou are right, the truth will come out. I'm still waiting for you to explain why Conservative supporters were also targeted. EC had complaints from the Ajax-Pickering Conservative riding office as well as voters, who complained of recieving several phone calls in one day from the Conservative Party, when the party had made no such calls..
Once again, someone claiming to be from the CONSERVATIVE PARTY, calling CONSERVATIVE SUPPORTERS SEVERAL TIMES, when the party hadn't called anyone.
Happened in other ridings as well. CBC reported it on May 2nd, 2011. The difference is Conservatives and Elections Canada know which ridings complaints came from conservative supporters, but rather than run around crying they are letting EC do a proper investigation.
"As for PayPal, Elections Canada has already issue court orders to them and they are complying'
ReplyDeleteIsn't that the whole point of my post?
"Actually, one can use paypal as a guest. Not have the payment linked to a bank account. Use a credit card instead. But not a named card... a Visa cash card that can be purchased anywhere and is unamed.
ReplyDeleteThis way, it is possible to remain anonymous"
Just tried opening an account that way. Says the pay-as-you-go credit card isn't accepted. Must be bank issued card, and must have 3-digit code on back of card. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Not sure.
regardless of their political connections, Elections Canada has stated the claims are credible, thus the investigation.
ReplyDeleteAs for my other statement, it was directed at Martin's question, sorry should have clarified who it ws directed at.
Well if you saw 'Ezra' tonight reveal his received sleazy,slimy 'Robocalls' and then you ponder the messages threatening the Minister of Public Safety, I simply can't imagine anything but a strategic strike.
ReplyDeleteThis imo has G20 type creeps and bums written all over it.
If it's a Conservative, let conservatives at him/her/them, first but I don't think it is and my opinion on which party (fringe) this likely came from may be so obvious that we are missing the obvious.
Paul you might interested reading this news piece
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Pierre%2BPoutine%2Bused%2Breal%2Bstreet%2Baddress%2Brobocalls%2Baccount/6260775/story.html
seem PP used a pre-paid gift card on his paypal account
Thanks for the link zorpheous. Hopefully they can still trace back either the paypal account or whatever payment was used for the credit card. I myself hope whoever did this gets caught and gets the full 5 year sentence to set a strong example.
ReplyDeleteEC has made great strides already, I'm sure they will keep going hard. There's no such thing as a perfect crime so at some point some piece of evidence will be found.
What confuses me in that link is why the guy from Racknine set up an account. Did poutine say he was from the Conservative Party? Seems weird. Also weird the person knew an actual street address in Quebec.
@ Zorpheous:
ReplyDeleteAs a voter in Nipissing-Timiskaming, I consider these claims of "voter suppression" to be absolutely absurd! Yes, Mr. Rota lost by only 18 votes .....
BUT, Mr. Rota's vote total declined by 3,033 from the 2008 election. The CPC total increased by 2,063. Interestingly enough, the NDP total increased by 2,199. Take a step back and give your head a shake ..... suggesting that Rota lost ONLY because of robo-calls is ludicrous. As for voter suppression ......800 MORE people voted in this election than the one in 2008.
I would even put forth the idea that the CPC did better in 2011 because we ran a Conservative candidate, and not a former disgruntled Liberal who had previously lost a nomination to Rota.
Your conspiracy theory is almost transparent, never mind thin!
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ReplyDelete" oh, and just to be clear, if this was orchestrate by another politcal party, be it Liberals, NDP, Greens I expect them to feel the weight just as it were the Conservative. In this case, party be damned, this needs to be punished with such servility that no one in the future will dare even think of doing this."
ReplyDeleteAgree 100%
Northern Tory,
ReplyDeleteConspiracy? Sorry, but this happened. It doesn't matter one rotting dingo's kidney whether the calls were effective or not. The intention behind the act is the bases for the criminal investigation.
Whether Elections Canada/Courts rule that a bi-eletion is required is completely beside the point.
Someone has tried very hard to f*** with our democracy, whether it was successful or not isn't the point! This person or people need to be caught and the full weight of the law needs to crashing down on them.
Paul, I think each instance of voter suppression is punishable by up to 5 years and/or a fine of $5000.00. The prison term would most likely run concurrently (max 5 years) but the fines could mount in the millions.
oh, and just to be clear, if this was orchestrate by another politcal party, be it Liberals, NDP, Greens I expect them to feel the weight just as it were the Conservative. In this case, party be damned, this needs to be punished with such severity that no one in the future will dare even think of doing this.
Well based on the OC article, both riding's (Guelph.. Nippissing) were using 2 different services that the party retained.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense that a rogue Conservative would use their own party's services.
That spells busted and stupid to me.
AS for the Racknine question re did the person identify themselves as a 'Conservative' to the owner... When interviewed on Rutherford last Tuesday he stated that a 'name' was provided (not Pierre Poutine as per the article) but he did not say whether the caller identified his party affiliation.
He provided this service for more than Conservatives but obviously being headquartered in Edmonton, they do a lot of work for Alberta Conservative party's.
@ Zorpheous:
ReplyDelete"Conspiracy? Sorry, but this happened..."
At this point it is nothing more than an unproven and unsubstantiated allegation. Just because the media have ran stories on it, no matter how many, does not make it true.
"Someone has tried very hard to f*** with our democracy, "
Provide the proof and I will accept that and demand that the offender(s) face the full weight of the law. Otherwise, you are simply spouting the Harper-Hater venom of guilty-until-proven innocent. Based on the so-called evidence provided so far, I have just as strong a case if I argued that my neighbours' dog projected thoughts into the heads of voters making them vote for party X.
I do find your following point of interest though: "It doesn't matter one rotting dingo's kidney whether the calls were effective or not. The intention behind the act is the bases for the criminal investigation."
With selective memory, you obviously don't recall the 2006 leaked Liberal "Guns in our streets" ad. Otherwise, you would be calling for their heads.......EC has stated there is a 10 year limit, and this ad certainly scared the hell out of some recent immigrants who were eligible to vote. Based on your own position, if even one elector was scared by this ad and did not vote or changed their vote, or even if the Liberals hoped it would discourage potential Tory voters, then the Liberals are guilty of voter suppression.
But as with so many other issues these days, all that matters is if a person is a "normal" average every-day Tory hating Canadian.
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ReplyDeleteNorthern Tory,
ReplyDeleteIn case you have missed all the news, the FACTS are crystal clear. Someone from the Guelph area used a "Burner Phone" and initiated a series of fracking phone calls posing as Election Canada (which is a crime in itself). These phone calls originated from the Rack-9 company out west. Do you really deny this didn't happen?
By your *cough* logic, a murder hasn't taken place unless the killer has been found, Screw the bullet riddled body and discarded gun, you want to see evidence of the actual killer first before you'll believe there was a murder in the first place.
And clearly you didn't get the point I made, I DON'T GIVE A FLY F*** WHAT PARTY THE CRIMINAL IS AFFILIATE WITH, IF ANY!!! They need to caught and prosecute to the fullest extent that the law allows.
Ya to be honest, I think it was someone inside the CPC campaign (could a lone wolf acting one his own), but Paul firmly believes it maybe a Lib or just someone wanting to make the CPC look bad. Yet at least he has the ethical balls to admit that the crime happened and wants to see them punished. You on the other hand seem more worried about the CPC seat count. Pathetic
As to your "Guns in our Street" whine, well that was a really stupid attack ad from the Liberals, still perfectly legal and is no where in the same ball park as criminal offence of voter suppression.
Lastly, I never vote for Creitien or Martin and I didn't vote for Iggy either (and he was the liberal in my riding, Etob-South) And just to be crystal clear, when Gomery tabled his first report I called for the Liberals to resign and when Martin pulled the "let wait for the second report" I was calling for Martin's head.
In closing sir, you are an ID10T
Considering that the only other claims, and proof of electoral fraud that took place in Guelph all involved "Liberals" or their supporters, I would say it's a pretty good bet that Pierre Poutine is also a "Liberal". I look forward to EC exposing who Pierre Poutine was. It's just unfortunate that when we find out Pierre Poutine was a loyal "Liberal" soldier, nothing will be done, and the Media Party will suddenly suffer from a convenient case of mass amnesia. I hope for the "Liberals" sake that they have covered their tracks sufficiently enough to never find out the identity of Monsewer Poutine, or his "Liberal" ties.
ReplyDeleteActually Zorpheous, if I had to guess it would be a third--party shite disturber, probably a U of G student.
ReplyDeletePlease excuse Zorpheous, he's a loyal Garth Turner toadie, and what ever sense he had has been turned to mush by the greater fool. If this was a conspiracy, why go to the problem of a burner phone and then use a company known to be used by the conservatives. Anyone with any smarts would of gone to the trouble of using two or more burner phones and use a company not associated with the conservatives. It seems that this whole conspiracy was designed to point the finger at the conservatives.
ReplyDeleteThe only problem with that theory, and it is a big one, where would a U of Goo student get their hands on Election Canada's Voter List that had been linked to the voters phone number.
ReplyDeleteNo matter how you want to slice it, this crime was commited from inside someones Election Campaign office and the person had to have access to the Contact Information Manage System software. That type of access is not just handed out willy nilly.
Archie, sure if that is way it happened (imo unlikely) sure whatever, the person who did it still committed serious crimes against our democracy and need to found and prosecuted! Unfortunately for your pet theory, Elections Canada and the RCMP are investigating the facts and they seem to be spending a lot time talking to CPC staffers from the Guelph office.
I could get anyones phone number. All I need to do is get their address, easy to do if they had a Liberal sign on the lawn, or any party for that matter, and do a reverse phone number look-up. There are various websites that do that free of charge.
ReplyDeleteAlso something a little more archaic. It's called a phone book. Conservative supporters also recieved misleading calls as well.
Then there is the fact that some polling locations in Guelph were actually changed. Gabby in QC already posted a link to that somewhere.
Paul, how many phone numbers are you going to look in order to create a Rack-9 phone distribution list? Seriously, the CPC has to use major telemarketing business to merge that data.
ReplyDeleteUsing Canada 411 just ain't going to do the job.
The phone lists came from inside one of the campaign election offices, whether it was a local riding access or higher up remains to be seen. Still even ignoring all that, there is the problem with targeting the voters political leanings. Sorry but no. the source is from one of the political parties.
As for some CPC supporters getting phone calls, yep, that is to be expected, since the political metric that is used in system like CIMS isn't 100%. CIMS measuring metric is ranked from -15 too +15. If you pull a list with everyone who measures -15 to -5 there is still going to be some possible CPC supporters in that list. Statistically it is inevitable.
I'm sure my CIMS metric is -15 in the CPC system ;) and the NDP and Libs too O_o
Oh and Paul, just in case you missed this one
ReplyDeleteHow Manning Centre & Campaign Research trained campaign mgrs in voter suppression: http://bit.ly/A1t6zY
Although I'm sure they would never ever use such tactics in real election. I'm sure there was a course/workshop on cuddly puppies and their application on voters too ;)
Zorpheous:
ReplyDeleteI know it’s difficult Old Bean, but please do try and keep up! YOU were the one that insinuated a widespread conspiracy by claiming voter suppression in my riding of Nipissing-Timiskaming (see the 2nd comment on this blog post). You clearly assume that because I do not share and/or embrace your opinion that I am in denial of so-called facts and that I am living under a rock. I’m sorry that it comes as a shock to you that some Conservatives do possess more than a Grade 8 education and are more than the knuckle-draggers that so many in the media portray us as. Believe it or not, many of us are evolved enough to actually think for ourselves and are immune to group-think. To that end, I will make the utmost effort to avoid the use of polysyllabic words lest you burst an artery.
Assuming you haven’t already expired from a rage induced coronary, I have not denied that there is something fishy in Guelph. That is your feeble attempt to obfuscate the issue by assuming that a dissenting opinion thinks nothing unseemly happened anywhere. I have taken issue with your suggestion that there was voter suppression of any sort in my riding. So if you have ANY credible evidence, please share it here..........Elections Canada must already have it, so you cannot hide behind the veil of confidentiality or secrecy or whatever. To use a colloquial expression that many of us up here in Northern Ontario like: Put up, or Shut up!
While I hate to engage in a battle of wits with an opponent that is unarmed, I simply must say that your ingenuous use of the murder analogy was incredibly amusing. Using your analogy, after finding a “bullet riddled body and discarded gun” in one location (Guelph), you have assumed that the same alleged killer (the CPC, based on your analogy) is a serial killer even though there are no other bodies or even missing persons reports. The Amazing Kreskin would be proud!
By casually dismissing my argument that the Liberal Guns-in-our-Streets ad is also a form of voter suppression through calling it a “whine”, you have only revealed your own shallowness and single-minded agenda. Clearly the INTENT of this ad was to keep some voters from considering voting for the CPC. That is the very definition of voter suppression you claim to be defending. It doesn’t matter whether it was effective or not (gee, THAT sounds familiar, doesn’t it?). Do you think this ad in some way actually promoted voting FOR the LPC?
And because it provides me with even further amusement, I’ll throw your own argument back at you: “I DON'T GIVE A FLY F*** “ whether you voted for “Creitien” , Martin, or Iggy, or what your response to the Gomery report was. Feel free to engage in your abusive and denigrating manner by suggesting that I lack ethics if that makes you feel superior, but you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I have consistently demonstrated an extremely high level of ethics in my personal, professional, and political life. I can hold my head high knowing that I fought in the political arena as a candidate for what I genuinely believe in, rather than what I thought would get me elected. Can you say the same?
Zorpheous, might wanna hold off pointing a guilty finger. Turns out that John Fryer was Elizabeth May's campaign manager.
ReplyDeleteHas a few more problems. States this occurred in 2010, and only now mentions it? And the bigger problem, David Akin was a speaker at said conference and states nothing relating to voter supression alleged by the professor was spoken about.
Oh yeah, seems National Newswatch has followed the National Post lead and now has it's own apology up top right on it's webpage.
http://www.elizabethmay.ca/whats-happening/green-party-thanks-john-fryer/
ReplyDeletefh
Zorpheous when did the RCMP get involved, I understand this is a EC show. What it sounds like this story has taken a side turn and the greens have gotten involved. From the looks of things some lawyers are going to be mighty busy with the amount of libel suits that could be filed.
ReplyDelete